Hi, I have a Mesa Boogie Mark V and using a Mesa Boogie 1x12 Widebody closed back cab. The cab came with a C90 speaker in it. No matter what I tried the cabinet just sounded boxy. I put an ET65 in it and the cabinet sounds great. I’m thinking about putting an ET90 in there for safety. My question is I’m thinking about getting a second cab and not sure to load it with an ET90 or a 12L. What would be the advantage or disadvantage? I know that weight is a big factor, but would these speakers pair well together, compliment each other?
WGS12L vs ET90
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Isn't the C90 like the ET90? I think smooth cone speakers like the 12L generally work well with anything. I doubt the 12L has enough cone resonance to interact negatively with anything having stronger cone resonances, so I'd go for it. It should add some bass depth & punch, and a little articulation to the ET65. Order an ET90 if you feel you need more glassy presence, but I imagine it will be sublime with the ET65.
I spoke with Trevor since posting this and we think that a Blackhawk will be a better choice.
Blackhawk ... yes! My absolute "if I could only have one" speaker. If ya can afford it, that's an EXCELLENT choice!
Please report back with your results!
So I got a second cab. It’s sounds pretty good paired with the ET65, but the Mark V is a dark amp, there is a large amount of low end that can not be dialed out with the tone knobs. I swapped out the ET65 for a Reaper 50 and this helped remove some of the low end. There is still a bit of that muffled tone coming from the stock speaker. I noticed after about 45 minutes of playing that my ear were starting to get fatigued from the midrange. I’m thinking about getting a Veteran 30
Wow, I typed a whole response, hit save and can’t find it. Ok, round two. I got a second cabinet and it sounds good paired with the ET65. The Mark V has a lot of bass, more than you can remove with the tone controls. I decided to swap the ET65 for the Reaper 50. This really helped remove some of the bass. After playing for about 45 minutes I noticed my ears were starting to get fatigued. I’m pretty sure this is from the stock C90 speaker. I’m thinking about trying a Retro 30 - 75 watts to help bring out some of the highs. Or an Invader 50? I’m not really sure if the Blackhawk is a good choice, I really don’t need anymore bass. I’m looking for more articulation and clarity (which the C90 lacks) and to add some highs, but smooth highs. Any input?
I'm beginning to think players from down south prefer brighter speakers because they are used to playing in hot humid environments where more high end is damped. The high end can sound vastly different in a cool dry environment.
Ear-fatigue is mainly caused by strong 3~3.5kHz (from the updated F-M loudness graph), so speakers with a dip in that range are easier on the ears. The C90 is apparently a tweaked Celestion CL80, which has strong ~3kHz and rolls off above that. The Retro 30, Reaper HP, ET65/90 and Invader 50 all have a ~3kHz dip. The Retro 30 has a bit more bite and 4kHz+ chime than the Reaper HP or ET65/90. The Invader 50 has essentially the same 4kHz+ range as the ET65. The smaller magnets in those two speakers can make for muddy bass with an amp like the Mk V that has less bass roll off and GNFB than a Plexi. The ET90 has a ~4.7kHz dip below the 5.5kHz peak that softens the high end, but it still has decent chime. The smooth cone WGS12L is a flatter sounding speaker. There isn't a ~3kHz dip, but the first mild peak is just above 3.5kHz, and there appears to be another peak at 5.4kHz after a 4.2kHz dip (according to the SPL I took). It's a classic sound for a Boogie, and a bit more ~3kHz aggressive than the ET90. The Retro 30 should be a tad more metallic sounding than either of those, but not harsh. I'd probably choose the WGS12L, but you might prefer the more chimey/Britishy high end of the Retro 30.
Tube compliment is also a factor. FI, the short bottle TAD (ShuGuang) 6L6WGC-STR sound very different when drive than the more bassy & crunchy JJ 6L6GC. The Tung Sol 7581A are essentially in between those, and very sturdy: tight & balanced tonally with high headroom and smooth break up like a good KT66.
So I'm running Svetlana 6L6s, with a mixture of Mullard 12AX7s Long Plates, JAN Phillips 12AT7s and a Genelex Gold Lion 12AX7 in my first preamp stage. I did try pairing the Reaper 50 with the ET90, sounded good, but the bottom end still had too much bass. Of course when getting up to stage volume the bass rolled off, but it still was too much for me. Trevor and I decided to try a Blackhawk 50 watt and a Veteran 30. I installed the speakers and it was decided to use the Veteran 30 in the bottom cabinet and the Blackhawk 50 in the top cabinet. I decided to try each cabinet individually first. The Blackhawk 50 was first, my initial impression was it was raspy and I thought "Oh boy, the most expensive speaker and it sounds worse than the ones I have". Next up is the Veteran 30, sounded pretty good. Not as ear fatiguing as the G30H or the C90. Also the bass seemed to be tighter. I then tried both cabinets together. Sounded pretty good, but the raspy tone of the Blackhawk 50 was bothering me. I then decided to swap cabinet positions. With the Blackhawk 50 cabinet on the ground the raspy tone seemed to disappear. I did get a chance to play in a band setting over the weekend and got to get up to stage volume. Both speakers paired together sounded killer. I had a great warm clean tone, a killer classic rock tone and a somewhat heavier, grungy tone. This is something I have never been able to achieve with one amp/speaker setup. The clean tone always seemed to suffer (I also don't really use a clean tone very often, so it really never was a big deal). I can now use a boost pedal on my clean channel and get a slightly broken up tone that fills the space between the amp's clean and overdriven channel.
I didn't really mean to write such a long winded post, BUT I did want to try to say that Trevor was extremely helpful in helping me get MY tone. Also I think that having some patience and trying different speakers, amp settings was another important part of this.