Hello David, hello Vaughn,
I will hope you feel more as well and succesful with the ultimate Warehouse Sound?
Now, please let me have a question.
Vaughn, you have done a very good job testing a lot of WGS Speaker in a 2x12er burris cab?
You told us that your personal favorite is the ET65 -Reaper mix??
Which of the Reaper was it, the normal or the HP or the 55hz Reaper together with the ET65?
Therefore I have the big think of which way to go:
Should I take the ET65 with the Veteran 30 (optimal standard overall soundmix?)
Or gives the ET65 with the ...Reaper more focused and warm Soundspectrum?
Or should I use a pair of 2 the same speakers???
Like Reaper 55hz plus Reaper?? Or Reaper HP?
The sound I want to get comes from overall 50 watt Tubeamps!
With that comes a Soldano HRO head 50 watt too, which sounds a little more trebly than
other ones.
Sounds should always be moderate; Rock, Blues, Clean Tone.
I hope this helps a little to give me experience from your professional Knowledge and Work?
So let me say thank you for help, and if I find the right way I will do it with WGS again.
Kind greetings from germany Holly
My personal favorite is the ET65 with a Retro 30. The ET65 also pairs well with the Reaper (30 or HP) and the new Invader.
ET65/Reaper = smoothest overall pairing
ET65/Invader = More aggressive (marshallesque)
ET65/Retro 30 = the best of both
How does the ET65/Veteran 30 fit in against the above parings? I'm curious as it says on the ET65 Product Page "Possibly the best WGS speaker combination we can recommend is the ET65 paired with a Veteran 30™."
This is just me ... personally ... I like the Retro 30 over the Vet 30 in every situation I've encountered thus far! It does have the Celestion-like urgency in the upper midrange (like a good Vintage 30), but it is much more well balanced and a little more complex and articulate sounding. Plus, the powder-coat is totally rockin...It's a very cool looking speaker!
Excellent, thanks Vaughn. One question, I have a 1x12 combo and 1x12 ext cab and want to run the ET65/Retro 30 as a mini stack, both are open back. Will running them in different enclosures sound like running them in a 2x12 cabinet, or should I just get 2 of one type of speaker instead with this config?
What about x-pattern retro30/vet30?
Hello, I'm planning on building or buying a 2x12 cab fopr the Retro 30/ET65 pairing. What dimensions or volume do you sugest?Also, should I cut the baffle to mount the speakers horizontal or diagnal? Is there a difference in sound? Thanks.
Here is the best sounding 2x12 cabinet design this side of a vintage Marshall Bluesbreaker (and yes, it is a BB copy).
Make it to these specs ... run it 1/3 open ... and post back when you've picked your jaw up off the ground!
avatarspeakers.com/home/product/g212-vintage
Good day Vaughn. The Retro is rated at 75W and the ET65 @ 65 as you know.
Does this not mean that over all tonal characteristics will be that of the Retro?
That is to say the Retro will dominate.
Ray
Excellent, thanks Vaughn. One question, I have a 1x12 combo and 1x12 ext cab and want to run the ET65/Retro 30 as a mini stack, both are open back. Will running them in different enclosures sound like running them in a 2x12 cabinet, or should I just get 2 of one type of speaker instead with this config?
Separate cabs are great ... especially when we're talking open-back ... where there is a lot less speaker interaction than there is w/closed cabs. I'm actually running my Burris through the exact combo you described and it's delicious!
So would the difference in sensitivity between the Retro and ET65 not make a difference (2db)? I always thought it was best ot keep them as close as possible.
If you pair a Ret 30 & ET65, the Ret 30 ... with it's higher sensitivity, will be the predominate voice.
There is no rule that says you must have equal sensitivities. It's like the ratio of sugar and lemon juice in lemonade ... it depends in how sweet or sour you want your lemonade ... :-)
I've tried some comvinations.
- Green Beret + Reaper 55hz:
Semi-open back: Good/punchy bottom end, with mids presents (in a good way) and good top end.
Closed back: the bottom end increases a lot, less mids, but in a good way.
I prefer this convination with semi-open back, sounds more open and well balanced .
- Green Beret + Invader:
Closed back: Sounds good, classic rock style. Compared to GB/Reaper55hz this convination has more mids and highs, less bottom end, but in a good way.
Semi-open back: I do not recomend in a semi/open back, poor bottom end, a lot of mids/highs.
- Invader + Reaper 55hz:
Like GreenBeret+reaper55hz but with more high mids. I like this comvination too.
- BlackHawk 50 + Reaper 55hz:
Semi-open back: Excelent convination!!! smooth top end, punchy and well-balanced mids, good bottom end response (sounds fat!)
I like a lot this convination, I use it with AC30/6 Top boot.
Cheers
HI Vaughn, you really seem to know the speakers well and combinations! I am looking to upgrade to WGS in a few cabs. All cabs are semi open back - 4" rear opening, I find this provides more spread and 3D tone live. Amps are mostly Marshall inspired - PWE Event Horizon, Bogner Shiva and Egnater Mod 50. Cabs are Bogner 212OS right now with Vintage 30s. Thinking about Retro 30s for this one? Stone Age 212C I am thinking Invaders or Invader/ET65 pair. THD 212 I am thinking ET65/Reaper 50 or Retro30/ET65, maybe Vet30/ET65.
HI Vaughn, you really seem to know the speakers well and combinations! I am looking to upgrade to WGS in a few cabs. All cabs are semi open back - 4" rear opening, I find this provides more spread and 3D tone live. Amps are mostly Marshall inspired - PWE Event Horizon, Bogner Shiva and Egnater Mod 50. Cabs are Bogner 212OS right now with Vintage 30s. Thinking about Retro 30s for this one? Stone Age 212C I am thinking Invaders or Invader/ET65 pair. THD 212 I am thinking ET65/Reaper 50 or Retro30/ET65, maybe Vet30/ET65.
Hi Richard, If you're ever in Nashville, stop buy & we can compare speakers till the cows come home ... yea, I love that kind of thing!
Anyway, I also have a semi-open back cab ... an Avatar ... and it can be the best of both worlds in many situations.
Here are my thoughts on your thoughts :-)
Q. Bogner 212OS right now with Vintage 30s. Thinking about Retro 30s for this one? ... A.sure, it will still be voiced similar to the Vint 30's ... but will be a lot more flexible with out the "ice pick" upper mid emphasis.
Q.Stone Age 212C I am thinking Invaders or Invader/ET65 pair. ... A. Do you like the GB growl? If so, that's sorta where the Invaders live ... Adding the ET65 to the Invader will sort of tame the cab and add a very warm, solid bottom to the Invaders urgent growl.
Q. THD 212 I am thinking ET65/Reaper 50 or Retro30/ET65, maybe Vet30/ET65. ... A. GO ET65/Retro 30 for sure!!!!
Hope this helps ... post back with your results! -VS-
I have 4X12 Vet30/ET-65. I also have Retro 1X12. (I also have to option of combining a single ET-65, with either ReaperHP or Invader.)
The Retro is the ULTIMATE in tone. Yet,it causes slight ear fatigue; which is likely why WGS created the Vet30.
The Vet30 is a bit darker in tone. As well as the ET-65 combined. Because of this, it's a full sound, IMO. Not as responsive as a Retro. But complete.
ET-65 and Retro is a slight wider variation. Same with Invader/ReaperHP. I've got too many combinations running, which is why I'm not crazy about mixing now. I don't have a 2X12 or 4X12 Cab with same speakers.
So if you're not into mixing and trying to create something different, the Retro/ET-65 (or 90) may be the way to go.
But if you already have some mixing, maybe Vet30/ET-65 for a rounder Cab. Or if you've got just too much Vintage30 but don't want to move from that tone.
Also Amps matter, obviously. Marshall is known for Vintage30 mix (Slash tone), but that's too much MIDS. Which is also why WGS created the Vet30.
Hi Holly,
I am far from knowing all of the WGS speaker goodness right now and focused more on the american voiced ones - but not only.
For you looking for a "Rock, Blues, Clean Tone" I can´t praise enough the ET-65 paired with a G10C, giving a good organic voice from the ET combined with a plus in shimmer from the G10, which has enough mids and bottom on its own. Regarding you being from germany (as I am as well) it´s easy to get a drop in 12 to 10 conversion at T-Town.
At the moment I got the G10C/G12C combination in my cab, which is also very nice, but might not be the right choice for an already bright amp.
If you are interested in my findings:
http://wgs4.com/mixing-g12c-g10c
best regards
Heiko
I have an Dr Z M12 and a recently acquired diagonal 2X12 cab loaded with a WGS Black & Blue and a Reaper. Also, I own an ET65 as well. All individual speakers are 8 ohms. The styles I lean toward is jazz fusion, and a bit of P&W, but I also want to be pull off a good marshall-ish tone with chunk & sizzle. My 2 questions are:
1. What are some other combinations between these 3 that would fit the bill?
2. Should keep it wired series at 16 ohm, or parallel at 4 ohm for best tone?
I had the Retro30/ET65 mix for quite a bit in a 2X12 semi-open back cabinet and after spending some more time with this setup, the extended upper mids and highs in the Retro 30 were a little too pronounced for me. I decided to take a chance and ordered an Invader 50 to pair with the ET65. Man, what a difference. It's hard to describe in words but the cabinet just sounds so much more rock n roll. I know, that's totally subjective but the tone I'm getting with my rig ('67 Bassman) and guitars takes it more into a woody, natural (Greenback flavored) overdrive without the spiky mids and highs always being so in your face. I still stand out and have a sonic footprint in a live setting with another guitarist so that's important for me also. The ET65 holds the lows together and the Invader 50 has a touch more mids where they are more scooped in the ET65 and they both share the same higher frequencies. All together they pair very very well without one frequency dominating the sound.
I think the similar SPL of the ET65 and Invader 50 help also as the Retro 30 was just a little more dominant than the ET65 when I was running them together. I think Vaughan says the ET65/Invader combo is more "Marshallesque" and I would agree with him 100%. It's a great speaker combo for everything from cleans to light to medium gain overdrive and crunch (I'd say up to AC/DC and Social D overdrive). I'm not sure how it would do with high gain and palm muted stuff however.
Don't get me wrong, the Retro 30/ET65 is a fantastic combo but with an amp that has a tendency to be bright it can really accentuate that Retro 30 to the point where it get's a little over the top. I put the Retro 30 in a closed back 1X12 and it sounds really good in that set up, especially with the closed back cab.
Yeah, I'd call the ET65/Invader 50 a killer rock n roll combo.
hi,
I'm looking for advice on speaker selection for a DIY 2x12 based on the dimensions of the Mesa vertical slant 2x12.
I would like to make the cab really resonant to start off with willingness to add more bracing if I feel I need more volume and less resonance.
My current amp is a Laney Cub 12r, which is only 15 watts and has a classic British voicing, but I'm thinking of eventually either getting a Carvin V3M head or some other modern high gain amp up to 50 watts.
Would a set of regular Reapers be a good fit for this cab. Since I want a the cab to really resonate would it be better to get 2 identical speakers or would there be a different speaker that would be a good match? i initially wanted maximum volume in case I ever want to gig with this amp and had thought of a Reaper / Reaper 55 pairing, thinking the extra low end and reduced highs of the 55 paired with the tighter and brighter Reaper might make for a nice balance , but since deciding to start out going for maximum resonance instead and then bracing it up if I need more volume, I'm having second thoughts.
If it helps, music I play ranges from blues and classic rock of the 60's and 70's all the way to modern metal. I want something with a tight bottom end, punchy mids and highs that give clarity but are not too piercing.
Vaughn,
I am running a Marshall 18 W clone into a 10/12 cab that currently just has a Vin30 in it. That well known overbite is grating on me. I would like to try mixing it up a bit and I am planning on putting a 10 & 12 in the cab and wiring it such that I can get just the 12 for low volume apps and the 10/12 for louder venues. (There are 2jacks on the cab)
i was considering a retro 10 with an invader 50. This will be for a mostly rock/blues set up. I like clarity without harshness, complex mids that change as notes decay, and a firm low end that isn't too pronounced. Too much low gets in the way of keys and bass in my band mix.
Thoughts and any other suggestions?
tim
Posted a while back ... guess I failed to hit "save" ...
These are fairly un-charted waters! Anyone else out there who's tried it got suggestions???
I don't think your Invader/Ret-10 idea is bad ... I just don't really have any idea!
Here's what you said that's a key:
"I like clarity without harshness, complex mids that change as notes decay, and a firm low end that isn't too pronounced."
Okay ... so you CAN'T go wrong with an ET65 & ET10 ... for sure!!
Next would be a Green Beret and an ET10. Those also play very nice together.
I have a Blackstar open back 1/12 with a Retro that I regularly run with my little 25 watt Zinky Blue Velvet with an ET 90.
I love the tone both alone with teh ET 90 and together with the Retro with my Zinky.
I have just picked up a old 1st gen non reverb Boogie Subway Rocket 1/10 combo and am looking for a 10 as the stock Black Shaddow is small, boxie and thin sounding in this amp. I was looking at both the Retro 10 and the ET 10 and wonder which one would fill out the tone the best in the combo alone . I also plan to run the Rocket at times with the Blackstar and the Retro 12 inch.
Which speaker do you reccomend for rounding out and fattening up the Subway Rocket tones the Retro 10 or the new ET??
I have tried several eminence combos, and have found it difficult to get the right mix. I think my ears want the 12" to have the upper hand sonically.
Tim
Greetings! I've just recently started making the switch to WGS and am loving my tones!! I was introduced to WGS speakers when I purchased a WhiteBox 2x12 with ET-65s on board. I'd play club-sized gigs with that cabinet and a Hughes & Kettner head and people would be floored. I can't tell you how many times I have answered the question, "what speakers are in that 212?!?!
I recently got another WhiteBox 2x12 and this time installed Liberators. Wow! Sounds as big as a 4x12. I then replaced some Celestion G12T-75s in a 412 with HM-75s and WHAT A DIFFERENCE!! Personally, I'm not a fan of the G12T-75 and the HM-75 cures everything I don't like about the G12T-75s. I also recently replaced the Celestions in another 412 with ET65s on top and ET90s on bottom. Amazing...
So so now I have an empty Hughes & Kettner straight 412 and am thinking of combinations. Hughes & Kettner puts Vintage 30s in all their high-end cabs and my personal experience and opinion is that this is the reason Hughes and Kettner isn't a more popular brand: Their amps just don't sound that good with V30s. Now, through my ET-65/90 cab... BOOM!!! So I'm thinking, perhaps a Green Beret top ET65 or 90 bottom combo. I like a tone that has a lot of crunch and snarl, or, as ART used to call it, "GRIND."
Thoughts?
Many thanks and Happy Holidays!!
"Their amps just don't sound that good with V30s"
Truth is ... almost NO amps sound good with V30's! Closed-back cabs with Marshall crunch being the notable exception...
The Green Beret / ET65 or 90 mix should be pretty solid ... kinda along the lines of the original EVH tone of Greenbacks above JBL D120's discussed here: https://wgs4.com/van-halen-tone-4x12-speaker-help
Here's my question, I am in the process of taking my 1970 twin reverb and splitting it up into a head/cabinet arrangement. I have been running the amp with V1 removed, a 12ax7 (instead of 12at7) in V6, 2 output tubes removed and 1 speaker disconnected so the amp sees 8 ohm load. If I were to make a 2x12 (open) cabinet with 1 ET65 and 1 Veteran30, what difference (if any) in tone/level would there be between setting it up with 16 ohm speakers wired in parallel vs 4 ohm speakers wired in series?
No difference!
So ... sounds like you have REALLY been doing a lot to tame the twin!
Wondering which two 10'' speakers I should get for a 2x10.
I like a smooth OD, Dumblish. Tight bass, not thumpy. No ice picky high end. So far my favorite speaker is the Emi RWB, and I also own an ET-10 in a 1x10.
Any recommendations?
Hi - I use a deluxe reverb that i have changed the baffle to take 2 x 10"s. I play a lot of styles, but all seem to have a jazzy flavour, with a range of clean to Santana-esque smooth sustain stuff. I have tried various speakers in the DRRI but recently installed a WGS ET10 and a G10c/s (the smooth cone one). The balance is fantastic and the tone is smooth. the ET10 has enough presence to and the C/S has all the smooth good stuff like a hemp cone speaker. There is a very organic quality especially using OD pedals. The bass has been reduced a little bit so the flubby stuff is gone. (there is still plenty of bottom end)
Last night a fellow musician asked me on the break, "what have you done to your sound, it sings..."
I am dreaming up a new cab, a pair of WGS speakers in the upcoming Jet City 24SVe—vertical slant 2x12 (26? tall, 19½? wide, 14? deep on bottom and 11¼? deep on top):
http://www.ampfactory.com/24sve/
This would be a great opportunity to try the Veteran 30/ET65 combination at long last. Thinking about it, however, I am tempted to use the HM75 in place of the ET65 for a tighter sound which has less highs overall—the tone chart sum being 12, 12, 11 instead of 11, 11, 11 (Bass, Mid, Treble). I would rather turn up Treble and Presence for highs than risk being stuck wishing I could turn them down further. The British Lead/HM75 combination is tempting, but I fear the low end will be too difficult to tame—the tone chart sum being 13, 11, 11.
Does this make sense? I feel like their might be differences in these speakers' low end characteristics which I am not taking into account. I already have a 1x15 with a Celestion G15V-100 Fullback for big, loose lows with plenty of articulation across the board.
Uggg ... don't do it!
The only way to improve that combo is to make it a RETRO 30 and an ET-65.
Hi,
I currently play on a Marshall JCM800 50W (2205) with a 2x12 TubeTown cab (bluesbreaker style, closed-back). I'm using a WGS Invader 50 with a Celestion G12T-75.
I like the tone and I think that both speakers complement each other well, but I find the result a bit too harsh : the highs can be a bit ear-piercing. I'd like to achieve a similar sound with less harsh highs and a more mids. I've considered modding the amp, but first, I think that changing one of the speakers might be just what I need.
I really love Greenback-like tones with Marshall amps, so I consider keeping the Invader and replacing the G12T with something a little bit warmer. Here are a few options I though of :
- Replacing the G12T with a WGS HM-75 speaker. Similar but warmer and less bright. Does the Invader/HM-75 pairing work well ? Would it "fix" the ear-piercing highs, or is the HM-75 too close to the G12T to make a difference ?
- Replacing the G12T with another Invader. Full 100% Invader sound. But it might lack high-end/bottom-end and be a bit more dull than the combination with another speaker.
Should I try the HM-75 or the Invader ? Or something else ? I mostly play rock, blues-rock, hard-rock, blues and pop-rock/indie (and sometimes a bit of country) with an SG and a Telecaster.
Best regards
First try keeping the Invader and pairing it with an ET65 ... if that dosn't get you far enough down the road less harsh ... then make it a pair of ET65's.
Hi Vaughn,
A quick question. I'm building my second cab with WGS speakers. This time with the et65 and a retro 30.
im going to be running a laney vh100r cab with it mainly. My style of playing is blues/rock, playing either clean with reverb, and or slightly tube overdriven with slight reverb.
this cab has the option of either a closed back, partially open, or open.
what would you recommend I set the cab up, with closed, partially open, or open?
thanks
Mikulas
The Ultimate 2x12! Man, I've had two 2x12 cabs with those options ... and personally, I keep coming back to liking the 1/3 open the best.
Which would be a good combo for a ceriatone 18 watt amp. Ef86 on one side, Marshall TMB on the other. 2x12 slant cab. Blackhawk/ green beret or et65/ retro 30?
Man, those are both killer combinations ... but the ET65/Ret 30 combo will cover MORE sonic ground, if flexibility is your #1 goal. The BH/GB combo would be the ultimate in warm, organic tweed Fender /basket-weave Marshall era tone.
I am currently rocking a Retro 30 and an ET65 in separate, identical open-back 1x12 cabs. I am using these together and separately with various low-wattage tube heads like the Laney L20H - classic rock and blues. I love the sound but I find that the ET65 is a bit too bassy for me. Any recommendations for a good pairing with the Retro 30 that will also sound good separately? Maybe the Invader 50?
Thanks!
I am currently rocking a Retro 30 and an ET65 in separate, identical open-back 1x12 cabs. I am using these together and separately with various low-wattage tube heads like the Laney L20H - classic rock and blues. I love the sound but I find that the ET65 is a bit too bassy for me. Any recommendations for a good pairing with the Retro 30 that will also sound good separately? Maybe the Invader 50?
Thanks!
Yes, if you find the ET too "bassy" ... then the mid-heavy Invader would be an excellent choice.
Hey Vaughn! I’m tossing around some ideas about a 2x12 cabinet I want to build and I would appreciate your input on the matter. I’m a Paducah, KY native living in Texas, and a WGS fanatic! I’ll be using an 8 ohm Reaper HP and an 8 ohm Retro 30 that were installed in my Peavey Classic VT50. I recently bought a Blackstar HT Club 40 to replace the 35 year old Peavey. My idea is to build a Stereo/Mono Cabinet for the Blackstar to sit on when it is turned vertical, making a tidy mini-stack. This means it needs to be 24.4 inches wide when turned vertical, and at least 11.7 inches deep. I would like it to be a versatile cabinet that would sound good with other amps I may acquire in the future. For the sake of versatility, I plan to provide multiple wiring options to include dual 8 Ohm Stereo inputs, a 4 Ohm Mono (Parallel) input, and 16 Ohm Mono (Series) input. The Blackstar will be running through the 16 Ohm Input.
I would appreciate your expert advice for two major design characteristics. First, should this cabinet be an open or closed back setup? I pay a variety of music from Blues to Classic Rock to down-tuned stoner Metal. Blackstar’s extension cabs for this series of amp are all 1/3 open-back. The amp itself is a ported closed back. The option of building a closed-back cabinet offers the opportunity to run the amp through its dual 16 ohm outputs to its onboard Celestial Seventy 80 and my proposed WGS Cabinet simultaneously for a one-of-a kind sound. The amplifier, in stock configuration, is already on the dark, bassy side with the Celestion Seventy 80. So maybe a closed back cab would be overkill. But the Reaper and the Retro Have excellent high-end clarity so they may be perfect in a sealed box. I haven’t ruled out a removable 3 piece back. What are your thoughts?
Second, based on the choice of open versus closed back, can you recommend dimensions for the cabinet that fit my vision? Looking at popular closed-back cabinets running V30’s and similar speakers, I see the top manufacturers like to have anywhere from 7500 to 9600 cubic inches of displacement. With the ends of my proposed cabinet mating with my combo amp’s footprint, that would put its length somewhere around 30 inches. Is a closed back 24.4" x 11.7" x 30” closed-back cabinet with a Reaper HP/Retro 30 combination a feasible configuration for a Rockin’ extension cab?
I appreciate any input you can provide. I consult your video demos of all speakers when making a purchase and have been pleased with my results. Thanks for all you do and Keep on Rockin’!
Jesse
Okay ... first, I think your proposed cabinet dimensions are fine .... and second, I'd go 1/3 open-back; it'll give you a more 3-dimensional stage-filling tone, and ... yes, I do think closed would be "overkill" as you described it with that amp.
Hope this helps.
Hello- I just bought a Veteran 30 for my 1x12 cab. I will be adding a second 1x12 cab and would like to know which WGS speaker goes well with the Veteran 30. I know there are other combinations that most will say work better, but I would like to try the Veteran 30 in a pairing first. Thanks, all.
I would like to know if a x-pattern vet30/retro30 could me a good choice for modern high gain?
Hello from Germany,
I recently bought for my VOX AC30 (2x12) an ET 65/16 as a substitute for Celestion Alnico Blue (new stock) which i am very happy about!!
Now I´m looking for a subtitute for the second Alnico blue, because i can not stand his shrill heights.
I was thinking something in the direction of greenback, because i like his "smack" especially with Strat, but i could use more Watt and of course i would like him to fit the ET 65.
Can you please make me a some good recommendation?
Thank you
Dusan
Yet another question on the right combo for a particular amp. I just completed a Tweed Twin High Power clone build. I plugged it in to my 2 x 12 ET65/Vet30 cabinet. It sounds...okay. But, it's a bit like eating raisin bran without milk. There are some sweet spots but, it kind of wallows from the lower mids on down. That is, it's a bit muddy sounding. Would swapping out the Vet 30 for a Retro 30 bring more clarity and definition to the lower range or should I take a different tack altogether?
Maybe 2 G12C's, 2 G12C/S's, or a G12C + a G12C/S combo would give me the tonal bliss I seek.
Thanks,
Cliff
I have a ET65/Vet30 Combination in my 2x12 Combo and I am very happy with this.
Now I bought a 2x10 Combo for home and small gigs. What 10'' speaker combination would you recomment that is compareable to my 2x12.
The Reaper HP is also great with the Vet 30 for more a more bole woody sound good for classic rock, some types of Metal or Jazz. It has a Clarinet-like upper-mid resonance and less sting compared to the ET65.
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